Curse

Nessa · Jun 24, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

What they should do is that if there's any member of the party who has NOT done the main mission, then you'd have to finish the main mission first before the mission bonus is rewarded.

So people who only go back to do the bonus will not be affected. However, if somebody wants to take advantage of a new group, they wouldn't be able to.

In which case you have the guy who wanted both but couldn't find a party so joined a bonus group and FORCED the rest to do mission so they could get their xp....
i really don't see the problem with the current system i think it's just bad experiences.. there have been many missions and quests in this game that were near impossible for me.. and i kept gttin screwed... but i have then finished said mission with a good group and regained hope... lol...

i know that sometimes i don't have time to do both.. so when i first do a mission to open my map cause i have nothing left to do....i make sure the group i'm in is ONLY doin mission.. then later when i want the xp and double sword(map freak need it all done and open

) i make sure the group i'm in is only doing the BONUS....
really any change would hurt more than it would help...
life isn't fair sometimes you get screwed.. it happens....

Yamat · Jun 24, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

Sanctum Cay.
Creston

Was a piece of cake... the white mantle there are pathetic. A few wards against melee and our PUG cleaned up.

Creston · Jun 24, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

What I'm suggesting is:
Do the mission AND the bonus quest at the same time, just like its done now by many players. Only you dont get the reward for the bonus quest at once, but you will be able to claim it after completing the whole mission.

I realize that some bonus quests are too hard to be done before having done the mission. But that's the meaning of these quests: The greedy ones who want it all at once will have a very hard mission. The way its been done now, doing the mission first, and later come back much stronger for the bonus, is in fact a way to cheat the bonus levels. Given that and the fact how hard it often is to get a party for the real mission, I think its a fair price to pay that when you go back later for the bonus you will have to do the whole mission again.

Sigh...

It has nothing to do with whether or not the bonus is "too hard" if you have done or have not done the mission.

In certain missions, most noticeably Sanctum Cay, going FOR the bonus means you simply CANNOT complete the mission. So in your scenario, it means NOBODY WOULD EVER get the Sanctum Cay bonus again, because they CANNOT complete the mission after doing the bonus.
So your idea would also require a revamp of certain missions, which means Anet has to test them again to make sure they still work and don't leave players bugged, etc.

All of this is time MUCH better spent on a better grouping system.

Creston

Creston · Jun 24, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

Was a piece of cake... the white mantle there are pathetic. A few wards against melee and our PUG cleaned up.

Make a video and I'll believe you. Of all the 40+ white mantle standing there alltogether, they all attack you together, and you clean up.
Btw, they have several disenchanters with them.

Creston

ZigZag Rollmeister · Jun 24, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Looks to me like this thread was started by someone who, one night forgot to try :

a.) changing districts

b.) remembering that for every guy who is only doing the bonus, there's another lvl 20 helping his buddie's alt get through the missions

c.) developing a friends list

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 24, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

I have to say, that the guy who started the thread is right, and depending on which server you are playing on, which mission you are on and the time of day, changing districts doesn't always work as there are no other districts to change to.
I have done

Quote:

b.) remembering that for every guy who is only doing the bonus, there's another lvl 20 helping his buddie's alt get through the missions

and this is irrelevent to the original post.

and ,

Quote:

c.) developing a friends list

I have a friends list, but what the original poster stated still rings true.

Now pull you head out of the sand and realise that the game plays different for different people and on different servers. What was posted was correct and I have been in groups on the bonus hunt which have often resulted in pain, I have done all missions finished game , done most bonus etc, but his point still stands.

ZigZag Rollmeister · Jun 24, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

This isn't about burying one's head in the sand.

Have I seen people looking to do bonus only? Of course.

Has it made it difficult to form groups for missions? Absolutely not. Maybe it has something to do with the time of day I normally play. But nevertheless, I've rarely had a hard time forming groups, and when I have, I've simply switched to a busier district and got my group. If you have a good, reliable friends list, then you can always ask your friends to join along if they're interested. And when you spam to fill up your group, be clear about the intentions of the group. It's simple.

And as eloquently stated on multiple occasions by Creston...This game needs a better grouping interface/system in order to account for all the mentally-challenged people who can't figure out how to get groups.

silvertemplar · Jun 24, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

I think people should go have a look at the concept of a "bonus" mission. Heres a few suggestions:

1. Bonus should not hold the same rewards as the primary mission [in fact it should hold less rewards]. Not only will this make the bonus TRULY secondary, but people will not be doing the mission JUST for the bonus.[I rather have people complain about not finding a group for the bonus than not finding one for the main mission]

2. The primary mission should have its rewards split up instead. If the bonus is so vital, then embed it into the primary mission. Instead give me 200xp on various waypoints with total mission reward of 2000xp.

3. As Last resort make multiple missions available at the outposts. Primary Mission, and multiple secondary missions. Drop the bonus out of missions completely, make it available as seperate optional missions which are UNLOCKED based on what you did in the primary mission......

Eclair · Jun 24, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

To add on to my original idea, (which was to make it so that if any member in the group has not done the main mission, the bonus reward is awarded when the main mission finishes. However, if everyone has already down the main mission, then the bonus awards as usual) add an icon next to everyone's name in the party that shows if the person has done the mission or not.

Basically, no sword for incomplete mission, 1 sword for completed mission, and 2 swords for completed mission and bonus.

This way, people who are looking for bonus only would be able to find groups just like they were before, and people looking to do the mission only or mission + bonus would be able to do so too. However, people trying to take advantage of one or the other would be unable to do so.

Eclair · Jun 24, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

I think people should go have a look at the concept of a "bonus" mission. Heres a few suggestions:

1. Bonus should not hold the same rewards as the primary mission [in fact it should hold less rewards]. Not only will this make the bonus TRULY secondary, but people will not be doing the mission JUST for the bonus.[I rather have people complain about not finding a group for the bonus than not finding one for the main mission]

The bonus already holds less rewards. I personally don't see a point in doing the bonus when you only get 1,000 exp. The skill point you get from completing the mission is worth more like 20,000 exp =P

Shin Lail · Jun 24, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

The problem I'm having is like the other night. We start a group we all need mission and bonus so we agree to do both. We find two other people that say they need both as well. We start the mission do the bonus and guess what the monk and the other guy drop immediately after bonus.

So ya the current system works if the people looking for bonus only actually say they need bonus only. But they are to lazy to wait for a bonus only group and join any group they can. Once we are in the mission the question comes up "bonus?"

nechronius · Jun 24, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

I've run into bad groups like that. Spent 1.5 hours on the Riverside Province with a "mission and bonus" group (I'd already done the mission), only to be cheated at the last minute by someone who was only looking to do the mission. They had the staff, so they took off running.

On the second run-through the remaining people were nice enough to come back with me to Riverside just to help me do the bonus. One guy in our party needed the mission, but we made sure that we did the bonus first BEFORE even thinking about the mission.

If I ever meet those two no good numbnuts in person, I have a punch waiting for them.

Dazzler · Jun 24, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

The problem is your suggestion is not fixing the problem. It is just shifting it around so that it does not affect you currently (as you are tying to do the missions), but will bite you in the ass later when you have done the mission but want to do the bonus.

Now you will find people that only care about the mission, but will lie and say they want to do the bonus too only to shaft you once the mission starts.

Instead of making suggestions that don't solve the problem, try to think about the real problem and post solutions to that instead.

The real problem is there is no efficient way to form pugs other than stand around spamming the General channel.

What we need is some sort of bulletin board system in each town (that spans all the districts).

You walk into town, pull up the bulletin board, click "Add Me" and tick off the quests/missions you are interested in that are in the area. The game adds you to a "list" with your profession and level and maybe some comment you write about yourself.

Anyway trying to form a pug can pull up this list and filter based on quest/mission/profession/level and possibly keyword search the comment. Presto you immediately get a list of everyone in all the districts that have the same goal as you and have the skills your pug is still needing.

That would go a long way towards resolving the complaint the original poster had.

True, this system is still susceptible to people lying, but there will be less incentive for lying as it is easier to form a group with people that share your goal.

chalt2 · Jun 24, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

What I'm suggesting is:
Do the mission AND the bonus quest at the same time, just like its done now by many players. Only you dont get the reward for the bonus quest at once, but you will be able to claim it after completing the whole mission.

Ok, that's what I was afraid of, if you do this then you ELIMINATE the "bonus" portion, see just by the very terminology BONUS should mean something extra something you can choose to do or choose to pass it up. I feel your pain and I understand your frustration with the way some people play the game but that is life, just do the best you can and move on.

If you need help with any of the missions or bonuses and you find me in-game give me a shout and I'll help if I'm not busy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

I realize that some bonus quests are too hard to be done before having done the mission. But that's the meaning of these quests: The greedy ones who want it all at once will have a very hard mission. The way its been done now, doing the mission first, and later come back much stronger for the bonus, is in fact a way to cheat the bonus levels. Given that and the fact how hard it often is to get a party for the real mission, I think its a fair price to pay that when you go back later for the bonus you will have to do the whole mission again.

I don't think this has anything to do with the original topic plus that is the point of both missions and bonuses they should be hard and increase in difficulty as you move through the game.

KaPe · Jun 24, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

"To do the Bonus on the Iron Mines, you must defeat 20+ Mursaat. However, to get Infused, you must first miss the bonus-- and you can't go back."

What? I just did it *again* yesterday. I did mission earlier, but rest of my party didn't - we went to infuse armor then went back to finish the bonus. Where exactly is point of no return in this mission?

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 24, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzler

The problem is your suggestion is not fixing the problem. It is just shifting it around so that it does not affect you currently (as you are tying to do the missions), but will bite you in the ass later when you have done the mission but want to do the bonus.

Now you will find people that only care about the mission, but will lie and say they want to do the bonus too only to shaft you once the mission starts.

Instead of making suggestions that don't solve the problem, try to think about the real problem and post solutions to that instead.

The real problem is there is no efficient way to form pugs other than stand around spamming the General channel.

What we need is some sort of bulletin board system in each town (that spans all the districts).

You walk into town, pull up the bulletin board, click "Add Me" and tick off the quests/missions you are interested in that are in the area. The game adds you to a "list" with your profession and level and maybe some comment you write about yourself.

Anyway trying to form a pug can pull up this list and filter based on quest/mission/profession/level and possibly keyword search the comment. Presto you immediately get a list of everyone in all the districts that have the same goal as you and have the skills your pug is still needing.

That would go a long way towards resolving the complaint the original poster had.

True, this system is still susceptible to people lying, but there will be less incentive for lying as it is easier to form a group with people that share your goal.

Take some of your own medicine, Your suggestion would not solve anything, as the players who leave the groups are the 'lairs', so you would have exactly the same, only with an extra option to pick them.
The original suggestion is a vaild one. It would make you actually have to do the whole missions again in full, big deal, they are not that huge, less than an 1 hour, except for the last 3. For the majority of mission, if not all with a good group, you can do both main and bonus in one go as they are now.

Nice ideas silvertemplar, not to sure how your second point would work in game though.

Dazzler · Jun 24, 2005, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger

Take some of your own medicine, Your suggestion would not solve anything, as the players who leave the groups are the 'lairs', so you would have exactly the same, only with an extra option to pick them.
The original suggestion is a vaild one. It would make you actually have to do the whole missions again in full, big deal, they are not that huge, less than an 1 hour, except for the last 3. For the majority of mission, if not all with a good group, you can do both main and bonus in one go as they are now.

Maybe you were too lazy to read my full post. What is the motivation of the liars? Their motivation for lying is that it is too hard to find a pug that wants bonus only. I won't get into the definition of "hard" because obviously alot of ppl have no trouble, but apparently some ppl do, hence they start lying to trick ppl into going with them and then dropping once they reach their objective, which btw, could be "bonus" or "soc" or "infusion" or even just farming a rune drop. Either way they lie because they cannot easily find others that have similar motivations for doing the mission.

Lying is a symptom. Inability to find a pug is the problem. If you make a simple mechanism to form pugs then you have now made decreased the difficulty gap between lying and forming pugs. It will never get rid of all liars, but it will decrease the number of instances this happens, making everyone happier than before and without shifting the problem to a different subset of the population (the bonus-only ppl)

What you are wanting merely shifts the problem and does not actually reduce it one iota.

Creston · Jun 24, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZigZag Rollmeister

And as eloquently stated on multiple occasions by Creston...This game needs a better grouping interface/system in order to account for all the mentally-challenged people who can't figure out how to get groups.

*Bows*
Thank you

I put it into words here :
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=24907

Creston

Raiddinn Beatdropper · Jun 24, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Leave it as is.

I want to be able to get henchmen and redo old bonuses without having to redo old whole missions.

*Sometimes* I also want to be able to get a group of people who hasnt done a bonus, and then do the bonus, and get the exp for everybody right there, and then have a consensual everyone restart without me and get an extra and redo but this time do the main...

Tsunamii Starshine

nechronius · Jun 24, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Yep. There is nothing wrong with the game's mission/bonus mechanic and it absolutely does not need a change. What needs the change is how parties are formed. 100% agree.